"Civility" is not civil
You are not compelled to be nice to people who want to destroy you
“Civility” has been discussed incessantly, but apparently it’s still a live wire. At a recent Munk Debate — a Toronto-based non-profit organization devoted to free speech and cross-partisan discussions of important political topics — we got a master class in the futility of civility as a goal.
This particular debate centered on the question, “Is this America’s golden age?” The speakers include two liberals (New York Times columnist Ezra Klein and Pod Save America co-host Ben Rhodes) as well as two conservatives (former Trump counselor Kellyanne Conway and Heritage Foundation president Kevin Roberts). I will say I’m generally not that interested in these sorts of “debates” and I’m not sure what we learn from them. I think it’s good that people can thoughtfully articulate different viewpoints about conditions in the United States, and these are obviously very qualified people for that discussion. But do such debates actually improve the tone of politics? Do they improve public policy? Are they just theater? (This one didn’t seem to change opinions in the room at all.) So generally, I’m not that into it, but if you get something out of it, knock yourself out. I doubt it does much harm.
But there was a moment in there that really caught my attention. Kevin Roberts spoke first and made a few vague dad jokes about U.S.-Canada relations. But then he ramped it up in the conclusion. Here’s the transcript of that part, and you can watch the video below.
Roberts: And so I submit to you in closing that this isn’t just about America’s Golden Age. I’m here as a proud American. But to say that we’re in America’s Golden Age doesn’t come at the expense of anyone else, especially our friends in Canada.
[laughs and jeers from audience]
So whether or not you want to be the 51st state, we invite you into this.
[loud boos from audience]
Entirely up to you, that’s the point! Part of the Golden Age is living in national sovereignty. And so I’ll close by telling you, we look forward to great success.
Moderator: Okay, audience, civility is one of the bywords here at the Munk Debates, so a little bit of hissing and booing is fine, but let’s try to be respectful of our debaters here.
Let’s review what happened there. A prominent U.S. conservative echoed Donald Trump’s call for some kind of Canadian Anschluss — subjugating Canada either through economic or military coercion into becoming the 51st American state. Trump has mentioned it repeatedly, and it has substantially degraded relationships between these two longstanding allies, trading partners, and neighbors. Roberts pretty blatantly lied that Trump’s vision of American greatness does not come at other nations’ expense. And when the Canadian audience jeered him, it was the audience who was reprimanded for not being civil.
This is generally where calls for civility break down. The idea that people should be allowed to offer offensive, destabilizing, or bloodthirsty opinions immune from pushback is not a useful or helpful condition for debate. No accepted theory of free speech, to my knowledge, includes the right to speak free of criticism.
I wish I could remember who first said it, but the idea that everything we see or read in “The Handmaid’s Tale” is technically civil is really important. People are polite, they’re deferential, they don’t interrupt… and it’s also a nightmarish dictatorship. Needless to say, this should not be our goal.
100% on point. When he talks about taking their sovereignty, he's crossed a red line. Turn off the mic. I'm imagining a First Nations approach whereby the matriarchs run him out of the room.
This reminds me of a recent article/post I saw referencing to one Rabbi's reaction to Hitler in 1934 amidst calls to boycott the Nazi regime (https://www.nytimes.com/1934/06/15/archives/urges-good-will-by-jews-for-nazis-prof-cadbury-of-society-of.html)
"Good will, not hate or reprisals, will end, or offset, the evils of the Hitler government's persecution of Jews, Professor Henry J. Cadbury, Professor of Biblical Literature at Bryn Mawr College, told the Central Conference of American Rabbis as it opened its convention here today. [...] Professor Cadbury is chairman of the service committee, American Society of Friends. "Oppression of Jews in Germany by Hitler and his Nazi forces can be ended not by hate that their victims may display, or by attempts to fight back," he said, "but by efforts to cultivate good will. You can prove to your oppressors that their objectives and methods are not only wrong, but unavailing in the face of the world's protests and universal disapproval of the injustices the Hitler program entails."
and
"By hating Hitler and trying to fight back, Jews are only increasing the severity of his policies against them. If Jews throughout the world try to instill into the minds of Hitler and his supporters recognition of the ideals for which the race stands, and if Jews appeal to the German sense of justice and the German national conscience, I am sure the problem will be solved more effectively and earlier than otherwise."
So yeah, screw civility when someone is calling for harm against you. Further, to equate boycotts and non-collaboration with hatred and violence is the type of false equivalence that fascists build their regimes upon. I am glad you called out the BS Seth.